sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

[David Brownlee]

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK would be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)

Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?

David

[AGC]

Post by David Brownlee

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK would be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp
server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm having
difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not like the
OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work around that problem.

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp server
with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm having difficulty
installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not like the OBP version.
Still haven't figured out how to work around that problem.

Have you tried netboot or the tape boot option?

On topic.. you might consider a prom update. Pretty simple 29/27 series
chips afair.

Additionally, there's some good scsi<->cf adapters also if you're having
trouble findign disks under the 2/8gb barrier.

Al

[Matt Dainty]

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!
On topic.. you might consider a prom update. Pretty simple 29/27 series
chips afair.

Indeed, there is/was a repository of the OBP images. I patched the 2.9
image so my IPX has this:

http://imgur.com/QLuLM

It has a PowerUP Weitek and a 64 MB SBus board so about as powerful an
IPX as you can get. It has NetBSD installed but it's not been powered
on recently, I'm sure it still works.

Matt

[Michael]

Hello,

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!

Post by AGC
I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my
ntp server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but
I'm having difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does
not like the OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work
around that problem.

Have you tried netboot or the tape boot option?
On topic.. you might consider a prom update. Pretty simple 29/27
series chips afair.
Additionally, there's some good scsi<->cf adapters also if you're
having trouble findign disks under the 2/8gb barrier.

IIRC the disk doesn't have to be within that barrier, just the portion
the boot loader needs to access ( via OBP calls ) - in other words,
the partition containing the kernel.

have fun
Michael

[AGC]

Post by Michael
IIRC the disk doesn't have to be within that barrier, just the portion
the boot loader needs to access ( via OBP calls ) - in other words, the
partition containing the kernel.

Ah, right, and I should clarify that I mean the CD bootloader on the
install CD. That keeps me from installing NetBSD because the bootloader
complains and bombs. I'll get the exact messages next time I can boot
it up after shuffling machines around.

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

Ah, right, and I should clarify that I mean the CD bootloader on the install
CD. That keeps me from installing NetBSD because the bootloader complains
and bombs. I'll get the exact messages next time I can boot it up after
shuffling machines around.

Oh! .. out of interest, what is your sbus probelist set to, and is your
MAC set to all FF:FF:FF ..etc? Wondering if the IDprom's gone fut.

Al.

[AGC]

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!

Post by AGC
Ah, right, and I should clarify that I mean the CD bootloader on the
install CD. That keeps me from installing NetBSD because the
bootloader complains and bombs. I'll get the exact messages next time
I can boot it up after shuffling machines around.

Oh! .. out of interest, what is your sbus probelist set to, and is your
MAC set to all FF:FF:FF ..etc? Wondering if the IDprom's gone fut.

I've already piggybacked a coin cell on top of the RTC so it still
remembers its name. :)

But the error specifically has to do with the OBP version. One of the
IPXes has a slightly more recent version than the other and that's the
one that NetBSD installed fine. The other one it won't load (same CD
same drive).

I also swapped the PROM from one machine to the other and the install
issue followed the chip.

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

IIRC the disk doesn't have to be within that barrier, just the portion the
boot loader needs to access ( via OBP calls ) - in other words, the partition
containing the kernel.

Oh? thats been fixed? Brilliant. Back in the not-so-recent-unpleasantness
2.0 or below(?) era I had a 4gb disk sliced up into roughly 900mb slices +
swap and misc. Worked fine. I then became overly zealous and fed it a 18gb
disk off two levels of converters and went gangbusters up to the point
where some counter wrapped and the fs was corrupted. Having dealt with
similar symptoms on 6-byte SCSI mail chipsets like the NCR5830 in a few of
my VAXen, I down-sized and developed a healthy respect for first
experimenting with while loops and 512mb file creation via dd with md5sums
at the end to see what the state of the drive was like when the disk was
not only split up but also "used".

Not really sure what the PROM version was but I am always wary of 6 or 8
byte capable SCSI scripting chips. It's bitten me on the freckle a few
times.

Al.

[Julian Coleman]

Hi,

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!
Oh? thats been fixed? Brilliant. Back in the not-so-recent-unpleasantness
2.0 or below(?) era I had a 4gb disk sliced up into roughly 900mb slices +
swap and misc. Worked fine. I then became overly zealous and fed it a 18gb
disk off two levels of converters and went gangbusters up to the point
where some counter wrapped and the fs was corrupted.

I'm not sure that this problem has been fixed. The two different problems
are: 1) the firmware being only able to access the first chunk of disk (see
sparc/boot(8) for limitations), and; 2) corruption using larger disks in
some machines.

For the first problem, there is no fix, so it's simplest to make the boot
partition no larger than the requisite size (or 1GB to work on multiple
machines).

I'm guessing too that the second problem is also a hardware limitation with
the ESP 100A (NCR53C90 clone) used in the SS2(*), where the SS20 uses an
ESP 200, and there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's. However, I'm
not sure if there also limitations there as well.

Thanks,

J

(*) Guessing that this is an SS2 from:

http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-sparc/2010/08/16/msg000841.html

[David Brownlee]

Hi,

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!
Oh? thats been fixed? Brilliant. Back in the not-so-recent-unpleasantness
2.0 or below(?) era I had a 4gb disk sliced up into roughly 900mb slices +
swap and misc. Worked fine. I then became overly zealous and fed it a 18gb
disk off two levels of converters and went gangbusters up to the point
where some counter wrapped and the fs was corrupted.

I'm not sure that this problem has been fixed.  The two different problems
are: 1) the firmware being only able to access the first chunk of disk (see
sparc/boot(8) for limitations), and; 2) corruption using larger disks in
some machines.
For the first problem, there is no fix, so it's simplest to make the boot
partition no larger than the requisite size (or 1GB to work on multiple
machines).

The sparc boot(8) mentions:

On sun4 machines, the NetBSD sparc boot loader can only boot from RAID
partitions that start at the beginning of the disk.

On sun4 and early PROM version sun4c machines, the PROM can only boot
from the first 1Gb of the disk.

On later PROM version sun4c and early PROM version sun4m machines, the
PROM can only boot from the first 2Gb of the disk.

On later PROM version sun4m machines, the PROM can only boot from the
first 4Gb of the disk.

Does anyone have any updates on that? :)

I'm guessing too that the second problem is also a hardware limitation with
the ESP 100A (NCR53C90 clone) used in the SS2(*), where the SS20 uses an
 ESP 200, and there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's.  However, I'm
not sure if there also limitations there as well.

Presumably the test case in both situation is to create a filesystem
which starts past a certain limit and then try to boot from/use it?

Does anyone have a >8GB disk and a selection of machines spare for
which they are willing to create a filesystem which starts >8GB and
test mounting and writing to it? It would be nice to confirm if this
is still an issue, and if so on what hardware...

[BERTRAND Joël]

Post by Julian Coleman
Hi,

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!
Oh? thats been fixed? Brilliant. Back in the not-so-recent-unpleasantness
2.0 or below(?) era I had a 4gb disk sliced up into roughly 900mb slices +
swap and misc. Worked fine. I then became overly zealous and fed it a 18gb
disk off two levels of converters and went gangbusters up to the point
where some counter wrapped and the fs was corrupted.

I'm not sure that this problem has been fixed. The two different problems
are: 1) the firmware being only able to access the first chunk of disk (see
sparc/boot(8) for limitations), and; 2) corruption using larger disks in
some machines.
For the first problem, there is no fix, so it's simplest to make the boot
partition no larger than the requisite size (or 1GB to work on multiple
machines).
I'm guessing too that the second problem is also a hardware limitation with
the ESP 100A (NCR53C90 clone) used in the SS2(*), where the SS20 uses an
ESP 200, and there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's. However, I'm
not sure if there also limitations there as well.
Thanks,
J
http://mail-index.NetBSD.org/port-sparc/2010/08/16/msg000841.html

Hello,

I cannot remember capacities of disks I have installed in my SS2
running linux (9 or 18 GB) and it worked fine if /boot was the first
partition and doesn't exceed 1 GB.

But one of my SS20's runs without trouble under NetBSD with two Fujitsu
U320 disks (300 GB) and all other SS20 run with one ore two 73 GB disks.

Regards,

JKB

[David Brownlee]

Post by BERTRAND Joël
I cannot remember capacities of disks I have installed in my SS2
running linux (9 or 18 GB) and it worked fine if /boot was the first
partition and doesn't exceed 1 GB.
But one of my SS20's runs without trouble under NetBSD with two
Fujitsu U320 disks (300 GB) and all other SS20 run with one ore two 73 GB
disks.

Would you have one of those large disks you could spare to test connecting
up to the SS2, with a filesystem starting above 8GB to see if it can use it
(not boot from! :) without issue?

Obviously it would need to be a scratch filesystem, just in case :)

[BERTRAND Joël]

Post by BERTRAND Joël
I cannot remember capacities of disks I have installed in my
SS2 running linux (9 or 18 GB) and it worked fine if /boot was the
first partition and doesn't exceed 1 GB.
But one of my SS20's runs without trouble under NetBSD with
two Fujitsu U320 disks (300 GB) and all other SS20 run with one ore
two 73 GB disks.
Would you have one of those large disks you could spare to test
connecting up to the SS2, with a filesystem starting above 8GB to see if
it can use it (not boot from! :) without issue?
Obviously it would need to be a scratch filesystem, just in case :)

I can test, but I have to reinstall my SS2 that ran an old Linux/sparc
release.

Regards,

JKB

[Mouse]

[...] there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's.

One of my SS20s has been running for years with no visible issues with

sd0 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: <SEAGATE, ST336607LC, 0006> SCSI3 0/direct fixed
sd0: 35003 MB, 49855 cyl, 2 head, 718 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 71687372 sectors

I do have a small boot partition at the beginning of the disk to hold
the bootblocks and kernel, but the hardware has no problems with large
disks.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

[Steve Rikli]

Post by Mouse

[...] there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's.

One of my SS20s has been running for years with no visible issues with
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: <SEAGATE, ST336607LC, 0006> SCSI3 0/direct fixed
sd0: 35003 MB, 49855 cyl, 2 head, 718 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 71687372 sectors

I can echo that -- I ran a pair of SPARC20 DNS servers for years
with the Fujitsu 36GB equivalent of the above.

Unfortunately they've both been given away by now so I can no longer
provide dmesg or similar debugging, but it "just worked".

Cheers,
sr.

[David Brownlee]

Post by Steve Rikli

Post by Mouse

[...] there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's.

One of my SS20s has been running for years with no visible issues with
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: <SEAGATE, ST336607LC, 0006> SCSI3 0/direct fixed
sd0: 35003 MB, 49855 cyl, 2 head, 718 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 71687372 sectors

I can echo that -- I ran a pair of SPARC20 DNS servers for years
with the Fujitsu 36GB equivalent of the above.
Unfortunately they've both been given away by now so I can no longer
provide dmesg or similar debugging, but it "just worked".

So, can we find a sparc old enough to have an issue with filesystems
past the 8GB mark? Maybe there just isn't one any more with recent
NetBSD?

[Martin Husemann]

Post by David Brownlee
So, can we find a sparc old enough to have an issue with filesystems
past the 8GB mark? Maybe there just isn't one any more with recent
NetBSD?

It is not easy to test. Most of the time you will be fine, and just reuse
low numbered inodes for /netbsd and /netbsd.old (slightly depending on your
exact update methoed). But sometime you might end up with a new /netbsd with
a high inode number and then the bootloader will fail to load it.

I am not sure there actually are systems with hardware trouble accessing
big filesystems past boot.

Martin

[Michael]

Hello,

Post by Julian Coleman
I'm guessing too that the second problem is also a hardware
limitation with
the ESP 100A (NCR53C90 clone) used in the SS2(*), where the SS20 uses an
ESP 200, and there have been reports of 18GB disks in SS20's.
However, I'm
not sure if there also limitations there as well.

Hmm, I have a 70GB disk at an ESP200 in my U1 - no problems. My SS5
boots from a 72GB disk although that's hooked up to a FAS366 and the
root partition is well within the 1st 1GB in both cases.

have fun
Michael

[AGC]

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!

Post by AGC
I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp
server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm
having difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not
like the OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work around
that problem.

Have you tried netboot or the tape boot option?
On topic.. you might consider a prom update. Pretty simple 29/27 series
chips afair.
Additionally, there's some good scsi<->cf adapters also if you're having
trouble findign disks under the 2/8gb barrier.
Al

I haven't tried a netboot yet, that was going to be my next option. The
tape drive that I have is dead so there's no tape boot option for me
right now.

I've not found any documentation for performing a PROM update. If
you've got a link, I'd be glad to look.

As for disks I'm ok for now. Both IPXes have 1GB installed disks and I
have a few JBOD quad-pack boxes that are populated.

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

I haven't tried a netboot yet, that was going to be my next option. The tape
drive that I have is dead so there's no tape boot option for me right now.

*nod* Ok. keep an eye on the capstans and the rubber wheel. I've seen a
number of drives dug out of retirement by enthusiests that've beed fed
their first tape and have had the rubber wheel spoodge all over the tape
as it self-destructs in much the same way the rubber feet on old sun's
enjoy. Check carefully if you do get the urge.

I've not found any documentation for performing a PROM update. If you've got
a link, I'd be glad to look.

It's pretty simple. Grab the prom update from a TME emulator site, eg:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/fredette/tme/sun4-75-nbsd.html

Grab an empty EPROM or one of the new FLASHPROM equivs like the AM29Fxxx's
(there's lovely .. plenty of chances to mess up and experiment without
having to worry about 1hr retry-delays as you erase under the UV lamp,
just blank it and retry), feed it the .bin image via a cheap willem
programmer. It's what I've done. I'm running v2.9 in my Fujitsu IPX.

As for disks I'm ok for now. Both IPXes have 1GB installed disks and I have
a few JBOD quad-pack boxes that are populated.

I like it. I've got a number of BA350's in service that are similar to
the old sun quad-disk lunchbox wannabe's. Recently, I've upgraded some
systems to an "SSD" (Still amuses me to call it such for giggles) is one of these:
http://www.artmix.com/pdffiles/CF_AZTECMONSTER_MN_E_13.pdf

I got them off fleabay for a fair bit of money. I've got two and frankly
want to in the coming months get some more. I have nothing but the highest
praise for what this Japanese chap has created. I have one attached to my
Amiga 500+ off the GVP Impact-II disk controller. Some max multiple
settings need to be set as it "will" try and do faster modes and the GVP
gets it's knickers in a twist without it being set to 64kb transfer
blocks. I have a second in the BA350 I'm feeding the VAX4000-m90 on the
dining table (Yeah, I'm staying single it seems), and the third in the
IPX. These things are darn quick, highly reliable. I just needed to take
the whole "it's not spinning media, it has limited number of write cycles
to it, so put your swap partition/slices and volitile dirs elswhere". So,
in addition to a scsi disk, I use one of these. System speed/response time
is exceptionally sped up.

They were afair originally intended for the m68k mac liberationists, but
work flawlessly in a lot of systems. Expensive, but really really just
works.

Al.

[Dan Oglesby]

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:39:34 PM
Subject: Re: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

Post by David Brownlee

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK would be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp
server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm having
difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not like the
OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work around that problem.

If you need the latest OBP burned to a chip, and can't find anyone else to do that for you, let me know.

--Danno

[AGC]

Post by Dan Oglesby
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:39:34 PM
Subject: Re: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

Post by David Brownlee

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK would be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp
server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm having
difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not like the
OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work around that problem.

If you need the latest OBP burned to a chip, and can't find anyone else to do that for you, let me know.

I may take you up on that. One of the few things I don't have is a PROM
writer. But first I'll verify the state of everything when I get the
IPXes booted again.

[Dan Oglesby]

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:08:56 PM
Subject: Re: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

Post by Dan Oglesby
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:39:34 PM
Subject: Re: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

Post by David Brownlee

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK
would
be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

I have two IPXes. One is currently running NetBSD 5.1 and is my ntp
server with GPS receiver. The other is waiting for an OS but I'm having
difficulty installing NetBSD because the bootloader does not like the
OBP version. Still haven't figured out how to work around that problem.

If you need the latest OBP burned to a chip, and can't find anyone
else to do that for you, let me know.

I may take you up on that. One of the few things I don't have is a PROM
writer. But first I'll verify the state of everything when I get the
IPXes booted again.

Yeah, I had to buy an EPROM programmer/burner in order to get my own sun4c stuff to install the latest NetBSD a while back. If it can help anyone else, I'm happy to do what I can.

I have a small pile of the AMD EPROM chips as well. Let me know what the model number is for your IPX, and I'll see if I have something compatible.

I do not have the firmware for the IPX, but I think someone else just posted a link that might be useful. I'll go see if I can download it from there.

--Danno

[Alexander Carver]

Post by Dan Oglesby
Yeah, I had to buy an EPROM programmer/burner in order to get my own sun4c stuff to install the latest NetBSD a while back. If it can help anyone else, I'm happy to do what I can.
I have a small pile of the AMD EPROM chips as well. Let me know what the model number is for your IPX, and I'll see if I have something compatible.
I do not have the firmware for the IPX, but I think someone else just posted a link that might be useful. I'll go see if I can download it from there.

If there's a way to hex-dump the PROM on the working IPX (ideally
without removing it) to duplicate it then that might work even better.
I know the one PROM works fine, the other one is a couple tenths behind
(2.7 versus 2.5 or something like that).

Both of these should be model 4/50's. The motherboards have Hobbes
silkscreened on.

[David Brownlee]

If there's a way to hex-dump the PROM on the working IPX (ideally without
removing it) to duplicate it then that might work even better. I know the
one PROM works fine, the other one is a couple tenths behind (2.7 versus
2.5 or something like that).
Both of these should be model 4/50's. The motherboards have Hobbes
silkscreened on.

Assuming SunOS could boot CD-Roms fine from the 2.5 PROM rev it might be
nice to try to track down what the NetBSD bootloader is doing "wrong" and
fix that. Its not as if the PROM revision is particular relevant once the
OS has booted :)

[AGC]

Post by David Brownlee

If there's a way to hex-dump the PROM on the working IPX (ideally without
removing it) to duplicate it then that might work even better. I know the
one PROM works fine, the other one is a couple tenths behind (2.7 versus
2.5 or something like that).
Both of these should be model 4/50's. The motherboards have Hobbes
silkscreened on.

Assuming SunOS could boot CD-Roms fine from the 2.5 PROM rev it might be
nice to try to track down what the NetBSD bootloader is doing "wrong" and
fix that. Its not as if the PROM revision is particular relevant once the
OS has booted :)

True :) I'll get that data when the machines are up and running. I
just went through a massive shuffling of furniture all around the house
and the entire "office/lab" has changed rooms so not everything is back
up and running yet. Going from memory, I recall the "counters" running
at the very beginning as the bootloader started up but then it would
stop at some point and never finish the boot process. Switching the
PROM resulted in a completed boot and the installer would be begin
shortly afterwards.

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

If there's a way to hex-dump the PROM on the working IPX (ideally without
removing it) to duplicate it then that might work even better. I know the one
PROM works fine, the other one is a couple tenths behind (2.7 versus 2.5 or
something like that).

Alex: Sounds like you guys are getting into the territory of needing your
own prom burner. A cheap willem programmer, mine cost 51$ inc shipping and
took a bit over four weeks to arrive by mule train from Bulgaria to
Australia is going to do the business. They're fiddly till you get used to
them but they do allow for burning a lot of different ROM's and also for
ripping them.

Both of these should be model 4/50's. The motherboards have Hobbes
silkscreened on.

That's normal. Sun liked to have a lot of machines with project names.
Calvin, Hobbs, a kodiak bear, same with a top-hat, Sharks, stingray, ..
does anyone remember what the "SunRise" project symbols were ?
There was T-Shirts for them all. Also, if you check the sun hardware ref,
part1. It'll list the machines. Afair the "Hobbs" was the IPX and Calvin
was on the SS2.

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~kim/faq/part1

Al.

[Dan Oglesby]

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 7:54:20 PM
Subject: Re: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

If there's a way to hex-dump the PROM on the working IPX (ideally without
removing it) to duplicate it then that might work even better. I know the one
PROM works fine, the other one is a couple tenths behind (2.7 versus 2.5 or
something like that).

Alex: Sounds like you guys are getting into the territory of needing your
own prom burner. A cheap willem programmer, mine cost 51$ inc
shipping and
took a bit over four weeks to arrive by mule train from Bulgaria to
Australia is going to do the business. They're fiddly till you get used to
them but they do allow for burning a lot of different ROM's and also for
ripping them.

Yup. I have one. Just need to know where to get the IPX firmware, and what model chip I need to program.

--Danno

[AGC]

Ok, I've got the problem system plugged in to boot it up.

The OBP is version 2.4 (the working system is 2.9).

Upon booting from the installation CD I get (my CD is set for ID 2)

NetBSD/sparc Secondary Boot, Revision 1.15

Booting netbsd
Data Access Exception
ok



That's where it dies.

I haven't had a chance to try a netboot yet, still need to set things up
to do that.

[Georg Brein]

Post by AGC
Ok, I've got the problem system plugged in to boot it up.
The OBP is version 2.4 (the working system is 2.9).
Upon booting from the installation CD I get (my CD is set for ID 2)

NetBSD/sparc Secondary Boot, Revision 1.15

Booting netbsd
Data Access Exception
ok
That's where it dies.
I haven't had a chance to try a netboot yet, still need to set things up to do that.

I had exactly the same problem back with 4.0 RC1; see

http://gnats.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/query-pr-single.pl?number=37080

My SS2 had ROM revision 2.2 (in the end I solved my problem
by upgrading to 2.9 which had other nice side effects like
allowing a boot partition size of 2 GB instead of 1 GB). The
workaround was to use the second-stage boot loader from NetBSD 3.1,
which worked with ROM revision 2.2, even when using it to load
the 4.0 RC1 kernel. The change which broke support for ROM revision
2.2 (and presumably 2.4) therefore seems to have occurred between
NetBSD 3.1 and 4.0 RC1 and seems to be limited to the second-stage
disk and CD boot loader (netbooting worked fine).

Regards,
Georg Brein
--
Georg Brein
Fakultät für Psychologie
Universität Basel
Birmannsgasse 8
CH-4055 Basel
Tel.: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-Mail: ***@unibas.ch

:%s/ß/ss/g

[David Brownlee]

Post by Georg Brein
I had exactly the same problem back with 4.0 RC1; see
http://gnats.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/query-pr-single.pl?number=37080
My SS2 had ROM revision 2.2 (in the end I solved my problem
by upgrading to 2.9 which had other nice side effects like
allowing a boot partition size of 2 GB instead of 1 GB). The
workaround was to use the second-stage boot loader from NetBSD 3.1,
which worked with ROM revision 2.2, even when using it to load
the 4.0 RC1 kernel. The change which broke support for ROM revision
2.2 (and presumably 2.4) therefore seems to have occurred between
NetBSD 3.1 and 4.0 RC1 and seems to be limited to the second-stage
disk and CD boot loader (netbooting worked fine).

Excellent. While its obviously better having the later PROM revision I
think its worth a pass to try to fix boot to work with the older rom.

Assuming the NetBSD 3 boot program works fine in this case the next
step would be to diff the -3 and -4 boot source to see what might have
changed then possibly build a version with some output debug to track
down the issue.

It looks like the code was updated to new prototypes from __P()
between netbsd-3 and netbsd-4, which introduced a lot of probably
irrelevant changes, but promlib.c was also moved around and there are
a fair number of changes in stand/ofwboot.

Obviously this needs access to real hardware. I'm happy to help
someone with such hardware either setup a test build environment or
generate test binaries :)

So, anyone with such a machine have some time to spare?

David

[AGC]

Post by David Brownlee

Post by Georg Brein
I had exactly the same problem back with 4.0 RC1; see
http://gnats.netbsd.org/cgi-bin/query-pr-single.pl?number=37080
My SS2 had ROM revision 2.2 (in the end I solved my problem
by upgrading to 2.9 which had other nice side effects like
allowing a boot partition size of 2 GB instead of 1 GB). The
workaround was to use the second-stage boot loader from NetBSD 3.1,
which worked with ROM revision 2.2, even when using it to load
the 4.0 RC1 kernel. The change which broke support for ROM revision
2.2 (and presumably 2.4) therefore seems to have occurred between
NetBSD 3.1 and 4.0 RC1 and seems to be limited to the second-stage
disk and CD boot loader (netbooting worked fine).

Excellent. While its obviously better having the later PROM revision I
think its worth a pass to try to fix boot to work with the older rom.
Assuming the NetBSD 3 boot program works fine in this case the next
step would be to diff the -3 and -4 boot source to see what might have
changed then possibly build a version with some output debug to track
down the issue.
It looks like the code was updated to new prototypes from __P()
between netbsd-3 and netbsd-4, which introduced a lot of probably
irrelevant changes, but promlib.c was also moved around and there are
a fair number of changes in stand/ofwboot.
Obviously this needs access to real hardware. I'm happy to help
someone with such hardware either setup a test build environment or
generate test binaries :)
So, anyone with such a machine have some time to spare?

If I can find my other spare CD drive I'd be happy to try this out on my
v2.4 IPX. It's not doing anything right now as it's waiting for an OS
that will let me compile more recent programs. :)

[David Brownlee]

Post by AGC

Post by David Brownlee
It looks like the code was updated to new prototypes from __P()
between netbsd-3 and netbsd-4, which introduced a lot of probably
irrelevant changes, but promlib.c was also moved around and there are
a fair number of changes in stand/ofwboot.
Obviously this needs access to real hardware. I'm happy to help
someone with such hardware either setup a test build environment or
generate test binaries :)
So, anyone with such a machine have some time to spare?

If I can find my other spare CD drive I'd be happy to try this out on my
v2.4 IPX. It's not doing anything right now as it's waiting for an OS that
will let me compile more recent programs. :)

Excellent :)

Does the IPX boot from CD-RW media? If not, and you don't want to burn
a CD for each test then an alternative might be a NetBSD-3 CD to get
the system booted, and into a position to write boot blocks to a scsi
disk for each test :)

[AGC]

Post by David Brownlee

Post by AGC

Post by David Brownlee
It looks like the code was updated to new prototypes from __P()
between netbsd-3 and netbsd-4, which introduced a lot of probably
irrelevant changes, but promlib.c was also moved around and there are
a fair number of changes in stand/ofwboot.
Obviously this needs access to real hardware. I'm happy to help
someone with such hardware either setup a test build environment or
generate test binaries :)
So, anyone with such a machine have some time to spare?

If I can find my other spare CD drive I'd be happy to try this out on my
v2.4 IPX. It's not doing anything right now as it's waiting for an OS that
will let me compile more recent programs. :)

Excellent :)
Does the IPX boot from CD-RW media? If not, and you don't want to burn
a CD for each test then an alternative might be a NetBSD-3 CD to get
the system booted, and into a position to write boot blocks to a scsi
disk for each test :)

No RW drive only a couple original Sun CD-R drives in external flat
lunchbox cases. One of them is in use on my fully functional IPX. The
other one is in a box that I'll have to dig out.

Internally it has a 1 GB SCSI drive and there's a disk pack with a
couple extra drives in it to handle any extra storage if needed (though
it's loud so I tend to leave it off).

[David Brownlee]

No RW drive only a couple original Sun CD-R drives in external flat lunchbox
cases. One of them is in use on my fully functional IPX. The other one is
in a box that I'll have to dig out.
Internally it has a 1 GB SCSI drive and there's a disk pack with a couple
extra drives in it to handle any extra storage if needed (though it's loud
so I tend to leave it off).

In, in your situation I'd probably setup another machine (maybe the
other IPX) to netboot to test - test boot to single user from net,
then write the test disklabel to the internal disk, then try rebooting
from disk, but they're your toys :)

[AGC]

Post by David Brownlee

No RW drive only a couple original Sun CD-R drives in external flat lunchbox
cases. One of them is in use on my fully functional IPX. The other one is
in a box that I'll have to dig out.
Internally it has a 1 GB SCSI drive and there's a disk pack with a couple
extra drives in it to handle any extra storage if needed (though it's loud
so I tend to leave it off).

In, in your situation I'd probably setup another machine (maybe the
other IPX) to netboot to test - test boot to single user from net,
then write the test disklabel to the internal disk, then try rebooting
from disk, but they're your toys :)

Yeah, next step is a netboot trial but that's going to take some work.
The IPX that works is not the DHCP server for the network so I've got to
figure out how to set it up to have RARP in one location and DHCP in
another.

[David Brownlee]

Post by David Brownlee
In, in your situation I'd probably setup another machine (maybe the
other IPX) to netboot to test - test boot to single user from net,
then write the test disklabel to the internal disk, then try rebooting
from disk, but they're your toys :)

Yeah, next step is a netboot trial but that's going to take some work. The
IPX that works is not the DHCP server for the network so I've got to figure
out how to set it up to have RARP in one location and DHCP in another.

You *should* be OK to run a rarpd and tftpd on the server IPX
providing the IP and boot program for the PROM, and leave the main
dhcpd server to provide the dhcp and other data for the boot program
once loaded...

[David Brownlee]

Post by David Brownlee

Yeah, next step is a netboot trial but that's going to take some work. The
IPX that works is not the DHCP server for the network so I've got to figure
out how to set it up to have RARP in one location and DHCP in another.

You *should* be OK to run a rarpd and tftpd on the server IPX
providing the IP and boot program for the PROM, and leave the main
dhcpd server to provide the dhcp and other data for the boot program
once loaded...

If you're still having network boot fun an alternative could be to
burn a NetBSD-3.x sparc ISO and using it to get an initial install
onto a disk.You would just want a second disk for testing :)

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

Post by David Brownlee
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

Hi David, My crimes include:

Fujitsu branded IPX with a weitek. NetBSD5.0 custom kernel. 32mb+32Mb ram.
Sun branded SS2. Dual-boot NetBSD 4.0 and theolinux 5.0 (needs
updating).

Also have three Classic's but they're usually off as the CPU/FPU is
noticably slower than the IPX for building things. :)

Al.

[Mouse]

Post by David Brownlee
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?

I don't know about "many". I thought I did but it turns out I was
wrong; my house nameserver is a lunchbox SPARC, but, on checking, it
turns out it's a Classic - sun4m - rather than an LX or IPX (or IPC).

It certainly could have been an IPX, though. I suspect the main reason
I used a Classic for it is that the Classic has a cg3 for a
framebuffer, so I prefer to use them in preference to LXes or IPXes,
which have (significantly more capable) cg6s.

The other two sparc64 machines I have in live use right now are SS20s,
which definitely are sun4m rather than sun4c. (Under NetBSD I tend to
lose track of the sun4c/sun4m distinction.)

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

[David Brownlee]

Post by ..I'd rather be coding ASM!

Post by David Brownlee
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

Fujitsu branded IPX with a weitek. NetBSD5.0 custom kernel. 32mb+32Mb ram.
Sun branded SS2. Dual-boot NetBSD 4.0 and theolinux 5.0 (needs updating).
Also have three Classic's but they're usually off as the CPU/FPU is
noticably slower than the IPX for building things. :)

Ah but that IPX has an unfair (though very nice) advantage with that
CPU upgrade :)

I always found that the v8 multiply/divide ld.so.conf switch on the
classic gave it an edge on ssh login time over the IPX...

[Harri Haataja]

Post by David Brownlee
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?

I still have a 1+. Sadly it hasn't really been active in a while.

[Christian Smith]

Post by David Brownlee
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?

(Lack of) space issues means my IPX was relagated to sitting in a garage. Not even sure where it is at the moment, for which I apologise, because I know IPXen hold a special place in many a heart (mine included, the first UNIX machine I "used"(*) was an IPX running SunOS 4.something.)

I take it you're back in London? If I can dig it out, I can bring it to London next time I'm down that way, which will certainly be by mid-Audgust. It deserves better than sitting in a garage.

Christian

* Poking round, I opened the maze demo, which promptly took over the whole desktop and I was unable to kill it. Despite warnings to the contrary all around the lab, I quickly power cycled the machine and made a hasty exit.

[Dan Oglesby]

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 6:34:37 PM
Subject: sun4c (Was /etc/disktab on vax)

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:10:30 +0100

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available).

I have a SPARCstation 1 and a 2 available free for pickup in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I am afraid shipping cost to the UK would be
prohibitive. :-(

Many thanks for the kind offer though. If I ever find myself out that
way and you still have them... :)
Do many people have active NetBSD sun4c machines?
David

I have an SS2 that I mess around with from time to time. My IPC's power supply died recently. :-(

--Danno