Discussion:
SCSI port type
AGC
2012-12-14 23:30:43 UTC
Permalink
I tried sending this question over to the suns-at-home list but it
appears the list isn't functioning anymore, the archives don't show
anything new and I don't get an autoreply when I send to the list.

Anyway, on to the question:

Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got a
few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA drives
and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have are all
LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).

Somewhere I also need to find an LVD SCSI card in PCI for a regular X86.
I was going to put one of the 711's on another machine for a JBOD
there, too.
Ken Hornstein
2012-12-15 00:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGC
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got a
few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA drives
and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have are all
LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).
It's been a billion years since I've seen one of those systems, but
I seem to vaguely remember those are the old, 50-pin SE interfaces.
Did they have SE-Low Voltage? I don't remember that.

--Ken
AGC
2012-12-15 00:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Hornstein
Post by AGC
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got a
few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA drives
and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have are all
LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).
It's been a billion years since I've seen one of those systems, but
I seem to vaguely remember those are the old, 50-pin SE interfaces.
Did they have SE-Low Voltage? I don't remember that.
Well I've got two IPXes and one SS20. :) The SS20 is my controller for
two A1000's and the nfs server for four 220R's.

I also have three 711 Multipacks that I want to use (and enough LVD
drives to fill them) though at least one Multipack will probably reside
on another system. I'm pretty sure that the differential drives could
be run single ended so it's mainly a matter of figuring out the bus
voltage (LVD S-Bus cards are hard to find).
Michael
2012-12-15 02:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by AGC
I tried sending this question over to the suns-at-home list but it
appears the list isn't functioning anymore, the archives don't show
anything new and I don't get an autoreply when I send to the list.
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's
most likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20?
I've got a few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that
accept SCA drives and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The
drives I have are all LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are
too tall for it).
Both are 8bit SE ( I'm fairly sure that applies to all sun4c and sun4m
workstations' onboard SCSI controllers ).

have fun
Michael
AGC
2012-12-15 02:30:25 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hello,
Post by AGC
I tried sending this question over to the suns-at-home list but it
appears the list isn't functioning anymore, the archives don't show
anything new and I don't get an autoreply when I send to the list.
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got
a few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA
drives and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have
are all LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).
Both are 8bit SE ( I'm fairly sure that applies to all sun4c and sun4m
workstations' onboard SCSI controllers ).
have fun
Michael
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
Ken Hornstein
2012-12-15 03:20:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGC
Post by Michael
Both are 8bit SE ( I'm fairly sure that applies to all sun4c and sun4m
workstations' onboard SCSI controllers ).
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
What I was trying to say before was: I don't think there was ever SE-Low
Voltage; that (as far as I can remember) never existed. There was only
single-ended and it was all high voltage. I'm sure someone will correct
me if I am wrong.

--Ken
Mouse
2012-12-15 04:54:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Hornstein
Post by AGC
Both [IPX and SS20] are 8bit SE
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
What I was trying to say before was: I don't think there was ever
SE-Low Voltage; that (as far as I can remember) never existed.
That matches my understanding too: all SE is the same voltage - the HV
versus LV distinction exists only for differential (and LVD is usually
(always?) willing to fall back to SE).

There certainly could be a different-voltage single-ended device
somewhere, but it would surprise me, since it wouldn't interoperate
with the rest of the single-ended SCSI world.

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Alexander Carver
2012-12-15 10:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mouse
Post by Ken Hornstein
Post by AGC
Both [IPX and SS20] are 8bit SE
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
What I was trying to say before was: I don't think there was ever
SE-Low Voltage; that (as far as I can remember) never existed.
That matches my understanding too: all SE is the same voltage - the HV
versus LV distinction exists only for differential (and LVD is usually
(always?) willing to fall back to SE).
There certainly could be a different-voltage single-ended device
somewhere, but it would surprise me, since it wouldn't interoperate
with the rest of the single-ended SCSI world.
Ok, then I'll just have to track down an LVD S-bus card, that should get
interesting.

I think the one I currently have for the A1000's is LVD, I need to
double check.
Volker A. Brandt
2012-12-15 11:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Carver
Ok, then I'll just have to track down an LVD S-bus card, that should
get interesting.
No need. If you are talking about the Multipack 2 (i.e. the 6 bay
version), well, it says UltraSCSI on the front, and that's what it is.
:-)

All disks you put in will clock down to UltraSCSI (== FastSCSI 20).
You can then use any SE SBus SCSI card. There never were any SE
UltraSCSI SBus cards, at least from Sun, but they had SE "Fast Wide",
which should also work as it is only a difference of speed. The
Multipack will clock down appropriately.

I find the Wikipedia table very helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI#Parallel_SCSI

If you have a 68 to 50 pin cable you could theoretically also hook the
Multipack up directly, but then you'll need to be careful about SCSI
IDs, as the IPX and SS20 have max 8 targets on their narrow SCSI bus.

There are nice SBus cards with an extra hme and "Fast Wide" SCSI (X1018A,
501-2739). :-)


HTH -- Volker
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANY Email: ***@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"
Michael
2012-12-15 13:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by Volker A. Brandt
There are nice SBus cards with an extra hme and "Fast Wide" SCSI (X1018A,
501-2739). :-)
There's also this:
isp0 at sbus0 slot 1 offset 0x10000 vector 3 ipl 3 for QLGC,isp
scsibus1 at isp0: 16 targets, 8 luns per target
sd1 at scsibus1 target 1 lun 0: <NETAPP, X243_FAL7E073S10, NA00> disk
fixed
sd1: 70092 MB, 29902 cyl, 8 head, 600 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 143550456
sectors
sd1: sync (50.00ns offset 8), 16-bit (40.000MB/s) transfers, tagged
queueing

have fun
Michael
AGC
2012-12-15 20:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Volker A. Brandt
Post by Alexander Carver
Ok, then I'll just have to track down an LVD S-bus card, that should
get interesting.
No need. If you are talking about the Multipack 2 (i.e. the 6 bay
version), well, it says UltraSCSI on the front, and that's what it is.
:-)
All disks you put in will clock down to UltraSCSI (== FastSCSI 20).
You can then use any SE SBus SCSI card. There never were any SE
UltraSCSI SBus cards, at least from Sun, but they had SE "Fast Wide",
which should also work as it is only a difference of speed. The
Multipack will clock down appropriately.
Two of the Multipacks are 6 bay and one is the 12 bay. The drives that
I have to install in them are all low voltage which is why I need the
low voltage card to run them (I've got 18 146GB LVD SCA drives waiting
to go in them).
Post by Volker A. Brandt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI#Parallel_SCSI
If you have a 68 to 50 pin cable you could theoretically also hook the
Multipack up directly, but then you'll need to be careful about SCSI
IDs, as the IPX and SS20 have max 8 targets on their narrow SCSI bus.
There are nice SBus cards with an extra hme and "Fast Wide" SCSI (X1018A,
501-2739). :-)
I've seen that card but I can never seem to find any documentation that
would tell me if it was a low voltage or a high voltage card.
Volker A. Brandt
2012-12-16 15:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by AGC
Post by Volker A. Brandt
Post by Alexander Carver
Ok, then I'll just have to track down an LVD S-bus card, that
should get interesting.
No need. If you are talking about the Multipack 2 (i.e. the 6 bay
version), well, it says UltraSCSI on the front, and that's what it
is. :-)
All disks you put in will clock down to UltraSCSI (== FastSCSI
20). You can then use any SE SBus SCSI card. There never were
any SE UltraSCSI SBus cards, at least from Sun, but they had SE
"Fast Wide", which should also work as it is only a difference of
speed. The Multipack will clock down appropriately.
Two of the Multipacks are 6 bay and one is the 12 bay. The drives
that I have to install in them are all low voltage which is why I
need the low voltage card to run them (I've got 18 146GB LVD SCA
drives waiting to go in them).
No, you don't. The key is the connection between the card and the
multipack, which is UltraSCSI. So you can use any SE card.

The drives will work in the multipack because a LVD device will fall
back to SE if you plug it into an SE bus such as the multipack backplane.
Post by AGC
Post by Volker A. Brandt
There are nice SBus cards with an extra hme and "Fast Wide" SCSI
(X1018A, 501-2739). :-)
I've seen that card but I can never seem to find any documentation
that would tell me if it was a low voltage or a high voltage card.
Neither. It is SE.


HTH -- Volker
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim, GERMANY Email: ***@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J.H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead"
Dan Oglesby
2012-12-16 16:33:36 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:39:01 AM
Subject: Re: SCSI port type
Post by AGC
Post by Volker A. Brandt
Post by Alexander Carver
Ok, then I'll just have to track down an LVD S-bus card, that
should get interesting.
No need. If you are talking about the Multipack 2 (i.e. the 6 bay
version), well, it says UltraSCSI on the front, and that's what it
is. :-)
All disks you put in will clock down to UltraSCSI (== FastSCSI
20). You can then use any SE SBus SCSI card. There never were
any SE UltraSCSI SBus cards, at least from Sun, but they had SE
"Fast Wide", which should also work as it is only a difference of
speed. The Multipack will clock down appropriately.
Two of the Multipacks are 6 bay and one is the 12 bay. The drives
that I have to install in them are all low voltage which is why I
need the low voltage card to run them (I've got 18 146GB LVD SCA
drives waiting to go in them).
No, you don't. The key is the connection between the card and the
multipack, which is UltraSCSI. So you can use any SE card.
The drives will work in the multipack because a LVD device will fall
back to SE if you plug it into an SE bus such as the multipack
backplane.
Post by AGC
Post by Volker A. Brandt
There are nice SBus cards with an extra hme and "Fast Wide" SCSI
(X1018A, 501-2739). :-)
I've seen that card but I can never seem to find any documentation
that would tell me if it was a low voltage or a high voltage card.
Neither. It is SE.
This is a general reply to the conversation. I am in agreement with Mr. Brandt.

LVD hardware is backwards compatible with SE. I have used onboard SE controllers on SPARC workstations (SS2, SS5, SS20) to drive newer LVD style drives in the past.

HVD hardware won't talk to SE or LVD hardware. I have an LTO tape library that is HVD for the enclosure and the drive, and had to figure out what I needed to drive this beast years ago when all I had was SE and LVD equipment.

"Most LVD devices are "multimode", automatically detecting when they are attached to a single-ended bus, and operating in single-ended mode. This makes it possible to mix LVD and single-ended devices on the same bus. However, if only one single-ended device is connected to a SCSI bus, all devices on that bus will operate in single-ended mode, and all of the single-ended limitations will apply: shorter cable lengths, fewer devices, and slower bus speeds."

http://support.tandbergdata.com/knowledge-base/display.cfm?id=775

--Dan

Michael
2012-12-15 13:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by AGC
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hello,
Post by AGC
I tried sending this question over to the suns-at-home list but it
appears the list isn't functioning anymore, the archives don't show
anything new and I don't get an autoreply when I send to the list.
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got
a few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA
drives and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have
are all LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).
Both are 8bit SE ( I'm fairly sure that applies to all sun4c and sun4m
workstations' onboard SCSI controllers ).
have fun
Michael
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
I don't think there's such a thing as low voltage SE ;)

have fun
Michael
AGC
2012-12-15 20:10:32 UTC
Permalink
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Hello,
Post by AGC
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hello,
Post by AGC
I tried sending this question over to the suns-at-home list but it
appears the list isn't functioning anymore, the archives don't show
anything new and I don't get an autoreply when I send to the list.
Does anyone recall what type (i.e. HV or LV and SE or Diff, it's most
likely SE) the on-board SCSI ports are for the IPX and SS20? I've got
a few of the Multipack enclosures (I think the 711) that accept SCA
drives and has two 68-pin SCSI ports on the back. The drives I have
are all LVD.(originally intended for an A1000 but are too tall for it).
Both are 8bit SE ( I'm fairly sure that applies to all sun4c and sun4m
workstations' onboard SCSI controllers ).
have fun
Michael
Right but low voltage or high voltage? :)
I don't think there's such a thing as low voltage SE ;)
Probably not :) But I had to ask. I've been looking for the right
interface for these multipacks for a while and it's really hard to
figure out if a particular card is low or high voltage. Some of them
are possibly high voltage differential and some are low voltage
differential.
Mouse
2012-12-15 23:25:58 UTC
Permalink
[...] it's really hard to figure out if a particular card is low or
high voltage. Some of them are possibly high voltage differential
and some are low voltage differential.
In case anyone cares, I have a big pile of HVD sbus cards, far more
than I'm ever likely to have a use for myself. They are not
SE-compatible, unlike typical LVD hardware. I've verified that they
all work far enough to appear in the OBP tree on power-up in my test
machine; I don't have any HVD devices to test further functionality
with, and it's possible some OBP versions may not get along with them
at all. I'll be happy to send them out to people who can use them (if
postage turns out to be particularly expensive, I may ask for a little
something to cover it, but for most of you I think postage will be low
enough it's not worth bothering with).

I can give the Sun 501- barcode number from them sometime in the next
few days, if anyone wants.

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