/etc/disktab on vax

[David Brownlee]

(Cross posted to port-sparc)

On 24 June 2012 20:31, Mouse <***@rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>> around to get it running again.  Linux just removed support for some
>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.

That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
a much better job on sun4m and later.

I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)

Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available). I still have my
classic, but thats a sun4m.

> In each case, support has never truly gone anywhere; old systems still
> do everything they ever did.
>
> NetBSD 1.0 (or whatever) per se might not be getting updated any
> longer, but that's hardly crippling; for many purposes, an old OS will
> do perfectly well, and for the rest, well, you - or we, for suitable
> values of "we" - can create an OS based there into which you/we pull
> whatever seems to need pulling.  I'm already doing this with 1.4T and
> 4.0.1 (550 and 112, respectively, commits since the base NetBSD version
> I started with).

Thats the joy of Open Source - you can fork and maintain whatever you want :)

[Alan Perry]

On 6/25/12 4:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
> (Cross posted to port-sparc)
>
> On 24 June 2012 20:31, Mouse <***@rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
Actually, ***@snowmoose.com wrote:
>>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
>>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
> That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
> a much better job on sun4m and later.
Yes, sun4c. All of that code was removed a few weeks ago.

I collect lunchbox systems. I run a mix of Solaris, RedHat (you could
once buy RedHat SPARC in end-user packaging) and *BSD on them.
>
> I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
This is good.
>
> Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
> the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available). I still have my
> classic, but thats a sun4m.
They definitely become available over there. Are you on the
suns-at-home mailing list?

alan

[David Brownlee]

(dropping port-vax :)

On 25 June 2012 18:58, Alan Perry <***@snowmoose.com> wrote:
> On 6/25/12 4:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
> Actually, ***@snowmoose.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>>>> around to get it running again.  Linux just removed support for some
>>>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
>>
>> That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
>> a much better job on sun4m and later.
>
> Yes, sun4c.  All of that code was removed a few weeks ago.
>
> I collect lunchbox systems.  I run a mix of Solaris, RedHat (you could once
> buy RedHat SPARC in end-user packaging) and *BSD on them.

Then you could possibly have an ideal perspective to compare them.
Could I ask if there anything in particular you feel that NetBSD is
missing on sparc that Linux or Solaris better provide?

>>
>> Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
>> the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available). I still have my
>> classic, but thats a sun4m.
>
> They definitely become available over there.  Are you on the suns-at-home
> mailing list?

I was not when I started reading this message, I would hope that I
will be by the time you read this - thanks for the reference!

David

[Dave McGuire]

On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
>>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
>>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
>
> That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
> a much better job on sun4m and later.

Very true.

> I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)

It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
it stops being NetBSD.

> Unfortunately I had to leave my IPX in the states when I came back to
> the UK, (but if anyone knows of one available). I still have my
> classic, but thats a sun4m.

Oh c'mon, that IPX could've been jammed into your luggage! ;)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

>
> Oh c'mon, that IPX could've been jammed into your luggage! ;)
>
> -Dave

I'm with Dave on this one. At the very least save the mobo+psu. If you can
track down an 80Mhz weitek "PowerUP!" cpu and associated PROM, the IPX's
and SparcStation2's will rock past a classic performance wise. Also the
mobo's will without much effort fit into a classic's case (stealth mod?)

Definitely worth saving Sun4c's. I have a fujitsu brand IPX with one still
running happily here at home.

Al.

--
--
Al Boyanich
adb -w -P "world> " -k /dev/meta/galaxy/ksyms /dev/god/brain

[Dave McGuire]

On 06/25/2012 08:41 PM, ..I'd rather be coding ASM! wrote:
>> Oh c'mon, that IPX could've been jammed into your luggage! ;)
>
> I'm with Dave on this one. At the very least save the mobo+psu. If you
> can track down an 80Mhz weitek "PowerUP!" cpu and associated PROM, the
> IPX's and SparcStation2's will rock past a classic performance wise.
> Also the mobo's will without much effort fit into a classic's case
> (stealth mod?)
>
> Definitely worth saving Sun4c's. I have a fujitsu brand IPX with one
> still running happily here at home.

I was happy to be able to rescue a pair of IPXs from the local
university surplus place about a month ago. I was pleasantly surprised
to see them coming out of production this late!

I agree about the PowerUP! chips. I've always said that they were the
closest thing to "something for nothing" that occurs in this industry.
It reminds me of the old NEC V20 drop-in replacement for the 8088.
About a 10-25% speedup depending on instruction mix, and it had a neat
8080 compatibility mode also. Neat stuff, and great memories!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[Michael Thompson]

Last year I sent about 100 IPC, IPX, and LX systems to recycle.
I still have quite a few though.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Dave McGuire <***@neurotica.com> wrote:
> On 06/25/2012 08:41 PM, ..I'd rather be coding ASM! wrote:
>>>  Oh c'mon, that IPX could've been jammed into your luggage! ;)
>>
>> I'm with Dave on this one. At the very least save the mobo+psu. If you
>> can track down an 80Mhz weitek  "PowerUP!" cpu and associated PROM, the
>> IPX's and SparcStation2's will rock past a classic performance wise.
>> Also the mobo's will without much effort fit into a classic's case
>> (stealth mod?)
>>
>> Definitely worth saving Sun4c's. I have a fujitsu brand IPX with one
>> still running happily here at home.
>
>  I was happy to be able to rescue a pair of IPXs from the local
> university surplus place about a month ago.  I was pleasantly surprised
> to see them coming out of production this late!
>
>  I agree about the PowerUP! chips.  I've always said that they were the
> closest thing to "something for nothing" that occurs in this industry.
> It reminds me of the old NEC V20 drop-in replacement for the 8088.
> About a 10-25% speedup depending on instruction mix, and it had a neat
> 8080 compatibility mode also.  Neat stuff, and great memories!
>
>            -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA



--
Michael Thompson

[Dave McGuire]

On 06/26/2012 07:19 PM, Michael Thompson wrote:
> Last year I sent about 100 IPC, IPX, and LX systems to recycle.
> I still have quite a few though.

Gads!! If only I'd known. I'd love to build a big cluster of sun4c
machines, just because. (and those 4m machines too, just because!)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[John Nemeth]

On Nov 15, 10:39am, Dave McGuire wrote:
} On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
} >>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
} >>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
} >>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
} >
} > That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
} > a much better job on sun4m and later.
}
} Very true.
}
} > I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
} It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
} it stops being NetBSD.

That's a little excessive. Depending on the longevity of NetBSD,
there will come a day when supporting sun4c will be utterly pointless.
That doesn't mean NetBSD is no longer NetBSD just that it has evolved.

}-- End of excerpt from Dave McGuire

[Dave McGuire]

On 07/01/2012 04:24 PM, John Nemeth wrote:
> On Nov 15, 10:39am, Dave McGuire wrote:
> } On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
> } >>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
> } >>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
> } >>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
> } >
> } > That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
> } > a much better job on sun4m and later.
> }
> } Very true.
> }
> } > I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
> } It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
> } it stops being NetBSD.
>
> That's a little excessive. Depending on the longevity of NetBSD,
> there will come a day when supporting sun4c will be utterly pointless.
> That doesn't mean NetBSD is no longer NetBSD just that it has evolved.

I disagree. There will come a day (and this day has come and went for
MOST people, but not all) when it's pointless to run a sun4c in
commercial production. Many people run them for hobby purposes.

So. Shall NetBSD just decide to be a commercially-targeted OS that
only cares about what is new and shiny? Speaking as a proud and happy
NetBSD user since v0.9 almost two decades ago, I feel that I can
reasonably assert that this has NEVER been what NetBSD is about.

Loss of functionality is not "evolution".

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[David Brownlee]

On 1 July 2012 21:33, Dave McGuire <***@neurotica.com> wrote:
> On 07/01/2012 04:24 PM, John Nemeth wrote:
>> On Nov 15, 10:39am, Dave McGuire wrote:
>> } On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
>> } >>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>> } >>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
>> } >>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
>> } >
>> } > That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
>> } > a much better job on sun4m and later.
>> }
>> } Very true.
>> }
>> } > I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
>> } It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
>> } it stops being NetBSD.
>>
>> That's a little excessive. Depending on the longevity of NetBSD,
>> there will come a day when supporting sun4c will be utterly pointless.
>> That doesn't mean NetBSD is no longer NetBSD just that it has evolved.
>
> I disagree. There will come a day (and this day has come and went for
> MOST people, but not all) when it's pointless to run a sun4c in
> commercial production. Many people run them for hobby purposes.
>
> So. Shall NetBSD just decide to be a commercially-targeted OS that
> only cares about what is new and shiny? Speaking as a proud and happy
> NetBSD user since v0.9 almost two decades ago, I feel that I can
> reasonably assert that this has NEVER been what NetBSD is about.
>
> Loss of functionality is not "evolution".

There my well come a day when a 32bit system with a 64 or at most 128M
address space and the performance characteristics of a sun4c is no
longer a viable platform for NetBSD. I do not see that happening in
the near future, but its possible that in 20 years, or 40, or some
even longer time it is no longer feasible to support such ancient
hardware and still deliver what is expected for a modern OS.

Coming from someone who is using NetBSD/vax and playing with
NetBSD/dreamcast I can safely say I have hardware much closer on that
curve than sun4c :)

Still, I suspect NetBSD/sun4c support may outlast most of us on this list :)

[Dave McGuire]

On 07/01/2012 04:46 PM, David Brownlee wrote:
> On 1 July 2012 21:33, Dave McGuire <***@neurotica.com> wrote:
>> On 07/01/2012 04:24 PM, John Nemeth wrote:
>>> On Nov 15, 10:39am, Dave McGuire wrote:
>>> } On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
>>> } >>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
>>> } >>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
>>> } >>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
>>> } >
>>> } > That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
>>> } > a much better job on sun4m and later.
>>> }
>>> } Very true.
>>> }
>>> } > I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
>>> } It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
>>> } it stops being NetBSD.
>>>
>>> That's a little excessive. Depending on the longevity of NetBSD,
>>> there will come a day when supporting sun4c will be utterly pointless.
>>> That doesn't mean NetBSD is no longer NetBSD just that it has evolved.
>>
>> I disagree. There will come a day (and this day has come and went for
>> MOST people, but not all) when it's pointless to run a sun4c in
>> commercial production. Many people run them for hobby purposes.
>>
>> So. Shall NetBSD just decide to be a commercially-targeted OS that
>> only cares about what is new and shiny? Speaking as a proud and happy
>> NetBSD user since v0.9 almost two decades ago, I feel that I can
>> reasonably assert that this has NEVER been what NetBSD is about.
>>
>> Loss of functionality is not "evolution".
>
> There my well come a day when a 32bit system with a 64 or at most 128M
> address space and the performance characteristics of a sun4c is no
> longer a viable platform for NetBSD. I do not see that happening in
> the near future, but its possible that in 20 years, or 40, or some
> even longer time it is no longer feasible to support such ancient
> hardware and still deliver what is expected for a modern OS.
>
> Coming from someone who is using NetBSD/vax and playing with
> NetBSD/dreamcast I can safely say I have hardware much closer on that
> curve than sun4c :)
>
> Still, I suspect NetBSD/sun4c support may outlast most of us on this list :)

Very true. NetBSD is a bloated pig now compared to what it was, say,
in the 1.x days. It used to be SCREAMING fast. Of course on a big
six-core i7 machine with 32GB of RAM, it's still screaming fast. Twenty
years from now, it'll likely be a bloated pig on that six-core i7.

The difference is important, though: That consumer-grade six-core i7
machine will most definitely not be functional in twenty years, while I
know of quite a few VAX-11/750s (~30 years old) that are still running
just fine. That was one of NetBSD's earliest supported systems, and the
VERY first one, I believe, (Ragge?) for NetBSD/vax.

Let us not be too quick to de-support for the sake of de-supporting.
The maintenance and testing overhead is minimal. The latter can be ZERO
if we put it on the users of, say, VAX-11/750s, to do the testing on
those machines and report bugs, preferably with patches. (I will, once I
get my 11/750 reassembled)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[Anders Magnusson]

On 07/02/2012 01:01 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> The difference is important, though: That consumer-grade six-core i7
> machine will most definitely not be functional in twenty years, while I
> know of quite a few VAX-11/750s (~30 years old) that are still running
> just fine. That was one of NetBSD's earliest supported systems, and the
> VERY first one, I believe, (Ragge?) for NetBSD/vax.
True. I had two of them, one running 4.3 Reno and compiling the system
and the other for test booting, using a dual-ported RP06 :-)
> Let us not be too quick to de-support for the sake of de-supporting.
> The maintenance and testing overhead is minimal. The latter can be ZERO
> if we put it on the users of, say, VAX-11/750s, to do the testing on
> those machines and report bugs, preferably with patches. (I will, once I
> get my 11/750 reassembled)
There are a bunch of things that causes bloat but lacking them makes
systems almost unusable. Compiling things on 4.3BSD systems is really a
pain since most SW today expect things like language support, threads,
tons of new libc routines etc.

There are also the fact that people writing modern SW often do not care
about execution speed, since it anyway is fast enough on modern hardware.

-- Ragge

[..I'd rather be coding ASM!]

> There are also the fact that people writing modern SW often do not care about
> execution speed, since it anyway is fast enough on modern hardware.
>
> -- Ragge

I will chip in with my 5c here (no more 2c in .au is in use). I quite
enjoy writing my software both hobbyist and work on at most 40MIPS
(CISC/RISC doesn't matter for the purposes of this argument as the
difference is trivial compared to current monster machines available at
local super market). I like to do this because:

1) If I make a speed improvement in the code or worse a decrease in
performance and memory usage, you really notice the drop in execution
speed.
2) Less distractions.

Eg, on my dining table there's a gorgeous VAXStation 4000-m90 + BA350
shelf. A ZetaSBC (CP/M) and an 11/70 in the other room with a large
quantity of other older systems. It's very relaxing to sit in the lounge
at the table, away from the distractions and work on things.

Al.

--
--
Al Boyanich
adb -w -P "world> " -k /dev/meta/galaxy/ksyms /dev/god/brain

[Mouse]

> Shall NetBSD just decide to be a commercially-targeted OS that only
> cares about what is new and shiny?

I thought it already had. (Oh, it's willing to tolerate the hangers-on
provided they don't get in the way of the real mission, but that's
about it as far as I can tell.)

They did call it "industrially relevant" rather than
"commercially-targeted" and "modern hardware" rather than "new and
shiny", but I have trouble seeing differences.

> Speaking as a proud and happy NetBSD user since v0.9 almost two
> decades ago, I feel that I can reasonably assert that this has NEVER
> been what NetBSD is about.

Until relatively recently I would have agreed with you. :(

> Loss of functionality is not "evolution".

Agreed...though it can be part of evolution. NetBSD has been losing
functionality regularly throughout at least that part of its history
I've been around for. Examples include dropping support for sgtty,
dropping support for the 80386, and each new release including a more
bloated gcc than the last (rendering more and more machines incapable
of self-hosting).

No, I don't like it either. But to say it hasn't been happening is, at
best, being blind to history.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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[John Nemeth]

On Nov 21, 11:09am, Dave McGuire wrote:
} On 07/01/2012 04:24 PM, John Nemeth wrote:
} > On Nov 15, 10:39am, Dave McGuire wrote:
} > } On 06/25/2012 07:10 AM, David Brownlee wrote:
} > } >>> I hope support for my old VAX is still around when I finally get
} > } >>> around to get it running again. Linux just removed support for some
} > } >>> of the older SPARC systems that I collect.
} > } >
} > } > That would be sun4c? Linux never really ran very well on it - they did
} > } > a much better job on sun4m and later.
} > }
} > } Very true.
} > }
} > } > I would not expect NetBSD/sparc sun4c support to be an issue going forward :)
} > } It had better not. The day NetBSD stops supporting sun4c is the day
} > } it stops being NetBSD.
} >
} > That's a little excessive. Depending on the longevity of NetBSD,
} > there will come a day when supporting sun4c will be utterly pointless.
} > That doesn't mean NetBSD is no longer NetBSD just that it has evolved.
}
} I disagree. There will come a day (and this day has come and went for
} MOST people, but not all) when it's pointless to run a sun4c in
} commercial production. Many people run them for hobby purposes.

There will come a day when it is even pointless to run them for
hobby purposes (some would argue that day has already come), except as
an historical curiosity. And for that, an historical OS would do.
Failing that, there will come a day when pretty much all remaining
sun4c systems simply cease to function.

} So. Shall NetBSD just decide to be a commercially-targeted OS that
} only cares about what is new and shiny? Speaking as a proud and happy

I don't think anybody said that. Nor is it the same thing as
desupporting completely pointless stuff.

}-- End of excerpt from Dave McGuire

[Dave McGuire]

On 07/02/2012 07:37 PM, John Nemeth wrote:
> } I disagree. There will come a day (and this day has come and went for
> } MOST people, but not all) when it's pointless to run a sun4c in
> } commercial production. Many people run them for hobby purposes.
>
> There will come a day when it is even pointless to run them for
> hobby purposes (some would argue that day has already come), except as
> an historical curiosity.

Well, speaking as someone who occasionally makes decent money with
sun4c machines, some of which run NetBSD, I would respectfully submit
that those people are either quite full of crap, or more innocently,
simply don't know what they're talking about. ;)

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

[John D. Baker]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:01:41 -0400, Dave McGuire <***@neurotica.com>
wrote:

> On 06/26/2012 07:19 PM, Michael Thompson wrote:
>> Last year I sent about 100 IPC, IPX, and LX systems to recycle.
>> I still have quite a few though.
>
> Gads!! If only I'd known. I'd love to build a big cluster of sun4c
> machines, just because. (and those 4m machines too, just because!)

How about this (a friend of mine):

http://www.bobdbob.com/~protius/computers/

In particular the first entry and its description. Then follow to:

http://www.bobdbob.com/~protius/computers/nebula/

--
|/"\ John D. Baker, KN5UKS NetBSD Darwin/MacOS X
|\ / jdbaker[snail]mylinuxisp[flyspeck]com OpenBSD FreeBSD
| X No HTML/proprietary data in email. BSD just sits there and works!
|/ \ GPGkeyID: D703 4A7E 479F 63F8 D3F4 BD99 9572 8F23 E4AD 1645

[John D. Baker]

Oh, ob-sun4c:

I have an IPX and an ELC kicking around, but haven't had time or space
to play with them lately. Put a coin cell on the IPX's IDPROM, but the
clock doesn't keep time when off since I borked the crystal. Its power
supply is flaky and it may not power up if either not enough or too much
load. I haven't had the space to get the ELC out of the shelf...

I was toying with an SS2 I was given, but like so many other things, it
has been in the shelf idle. It had a SunOS 4.3 installation on it, which
I've preserved somewhere. I could never get it to put its console on
ttya even when I explicitly set everything in OBP. The serial ports do
work, though, when driven via getty or tip/cu.

Somewhere under all the other stuff is an SS1+ and I think the hulk of
another. I've never had opportunity to explore them. Perhaps that'll
be something to do on an upcoming long weekend...

That, and I need to make a pile of mini-DIN-8/DB25 cables...

--
|/"\ John D. Baker, KN5UKS NetBSD Darwin/MacOS X
|\ / jdbaker[snail]mylinuxisp[flyspeck]com OpenBSD FreeBSD
| X No HTML/proprietary data in email. BSD just sits there and works!
|/ \ GPGkeyID: D703 4A7E 479F 63F8 D3F4 BD99 9572 8F23 E4AD 1645

[Steve Rikli]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 11:28:46PM -0500, John D. Baker wrote:
> ...
> I was toying with an SS2 I was given, but like so many other things, it
> has been in the shelf idle. It had a SunOS 4.3 installation on it, which
> I've preserved somewhere. I could never get it to put its console on
> ttya even when I explicitly set everything in OBP. The serial ports do
> work, though, when driven via getty or tip/cu.
>
> Somewhere under all the other stuff is an SS1+ and I think the hulk of
> another. I've never had opportunity to explore them. Perhaps that'll
> be something to do on an upcoming long weekend...
>
> That, and I need to make a pile of mini-DIN-8/DB25 cables...

If you (or anyone) needs a handful (5-7) of din-8 to db9f cables, I'll
send them your way for the cost of shipping.

For reference these are SGI part# 018-8104-001, and it's a 6" long
cable we used for the din-8 serial console on Indy, Challenge S, etc.
and it turns into a db9f on the other end, suitable for your laptop
serial port, most serial console servers of the era, etc.

Contact me off-list if you like.

Cheers,
sr.

[Mouse]

>> That, and I need to make a pile of mini-DIN-8/DB25 cables...
> If you (or anyone) needs a handful (5-7) of din-8 to db9f cables,
> I'll send them your way for the cost of shipping.

(DE9F, I assume.)

> For reference these are SGI part# 018-8104-001,

Is the SGI pinout for serial-on-miniDIN-8 the same as the Sun pinout?
I thought they were different, but I could be misremembering something
else, like the 10 individual pins on a 13W3....

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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[Steve Rikli]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 01:12:59PM -0400, Mouse wrote:
> >> That, and I need to make a pile of mini-DIN-8/DB25 cables...
> > If you (or anyone) needs a handful (5-7) of din-8 to db9f cables,
> > I'll send them your way for the cost of shipping.
>
> (DE9F, I assume.)

Sure.

> > For reference these are SGI part# 018-8104-001,
>
> Is the SGI pinout for serial-on-miniDIN-8 the same as the Sun pinout?
> I thought they were different, but I could be misremembering something
> else, like the 10 individual pins on a 13W3....

Maybe this helps:

http://www.netbsd.org/ports/sgimips/faq.html#serialconsole

:-)

Cheers,
sr.

[Mouse]

>>> For reference these are SGI part# 018-8104-001,
>> Is the SGI pinout for serial-on-miniDIN-8 the same as the Sun
>> pinout? [...fuzzy memory says no...]

> Maybe this helps:

> http://www.netbsd.org/ports/sgimips/faq.html#serialconsole

Well, it seems ambiguous to me. It says the pinout is the same, but
then it says "as long as you are willing to do it without hardware
handshaking lines", which sounds as though it may actually be "the data
and ground pins are the same but the handshake lines are different".

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[Steve Rikli]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 06:10:23PM -0400, Mouse wrote:
> >>> For reference these are SGI part# 018-8104-001,
> >> Is the SGI pinout for serial-on-miniDIN-8 the same as the Sun
> >> pinout? [...fuzzy memory says no...]
>
> > Maybe this helps:
>
> > http://www.netbsd.org/ports/sgimips/faq.html#serialconsole
>
> Well, it seems ambiguous to me. It says the pinout is the same, but
> then it says "as long as you are willing to do it without hardware
> handshaking lines", which sounds as though it may actually be "the data
> and ground pins are the same but the handshake lines are different".

Continue following one the links therein to the "NetBSD Serial Port
Primer" and it shows the actual pinouts, across multiple platforms:

http://www.netbsd.org/docs/Hardware/Misc/serial.html

Maybe that's clearer. [disclaimer: I'm not the author, only a
grateful consumer]

Cheers,
sr.

[Volker Borchert]

In message <***@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> you write:

|> Failing that, there will come a day when pretty much all remaining
|> sun4c systems simply cease to function.

January 2038 might be such a day, but until then that 4/75 with those
three SPIFs will be my console server.

vb

[Hauke Fath]

At 20:09 Uhr +0200 3.7.2012, Volker Borchert wrote:
>In message <***@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> you write:
>
>|> Failing that, there will come a day when pretty much all remaining
>|> sun4c systems simply cease to function.
>
>January 2038 might be such a day, but until then that 4/75 with those
>three SPIFs will be my console server.

... running NetBSD? I thought my two (one actually, since my home ss20's
SM71s flaked out) were the only ones. Conserver rules.

hauke

--
"It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)

[Mouse]

>>> Failing that, there will come a day when pretty much all remaining
>>> sun4c systems simply cease to function.
>> January 2038 might be such a day, but until then that 4/75 with
>> those three SPIFs will be my console server.
> ... running NetBSD? I thought my two (one actually, since my home
> ss20's SM71s flaked out) were the only ones.

Your SS20 was/is not a sun4c; it was/is a sun4m.

But, yeah. I've got two SS20s and a Classic in live use right now. No
sun4cs, at the moment, though - even the Classic is a sun4m, I think.

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[Hauke Fath]

Am 03.07.12 22:38, schrieb Mouse:
>>>> Failing that, there will come a day when pretty much all remaining
>>>> >>> sun4c systems simply cease to function.
>>> >> January 2038 might be such a day, but until then that 4/75 with
>>> >> those three SPIFs will be my console server.
>> > ... running NetBSD? I thought my two (one actually, since my home
>> > ss20's SM71s flaked out) were the only ones.
> Your SS20 was/is not a sun4c; it was/is a sun4m.

I was referring to the SPIFs, not the cpu.

hauke